dragonagefandomcom-20200223-history
User talk:Steele-Wool
Congratulations! Hey! Just a couple of quick notes about the new moderator tools you have: *You now have access to “Reported Content”. If you’re viewing the Discussions via computer it’s on the right-hand side below “Guidelines”. If you’re using the mobile app, you can find it in that little “Filter Posts” dropdown menu at the top of the app. Just scroll all the way down to the bottom and it’s under “Moderator Tools”. **You'll have two options on reported posts: approve or delete. Approve will leave the message as is, which I usually do if it's not really that contentious, was accidental, or if I addressed the issue within the post itself. Users can't delete their own comments, so sometimes you'll see users reporting themselves; I delete anything at author request because it's stupid that wiki won't allow users to do it themselves . * In order to block someone, click on their username and tab to “Contributions”. The option to “Block” will be in the list along the top. We don’t have any set guidelines on how long to block someone, but I’d recommend using short blocks, and then lengthening it as needed for repeat offenders. Since the block is for both the wiki and Discussions just use your discretion, but I’d prefer you consult with an admin before issuing anyone an infinite block. * The easiest way to get in contact with me is through my user talk page. But you can also email me at kelcatsmail@gmail.com if needed. Good luck, and thanks for helping out! -- 06:06, August 6, 2017 (UTC) RE: Suspect User I’ve replied to you via email. Incivility and off-topic violations. Could you explain how did you determine my comment was rude and off-topic? 1.As I explained in deleted comment rudeness is determined by lack of adherence to expected social etiquette and every society has own version of it and some hold one's that are in contradiction with each other and let alone individual interpretation of what constitutes rudeness, so it would be impossible for me (and anyone else) to adhere to behavior in order to avoid to all standards which deem something to be rude and yet be able to post any type of response. If standard of behavior is left upon administrators to decide then standard is arbitrary as each administrator can possess own set of standards that would constitute rude behavior and could contradict each other, in addition to that leaving user without proper ability to understand what is the standard and therefore unable unable adjust behavior in accordance to that standard so it doesn't violate rules. There are some terms in guidelines used that could perhaps be applicable to my comment if adhering strictly to their definitions but that would cover many behaviors of perhaps all behaviors if they could be interpreted as an offense, such as mere questioning someone or telling someone what they said is wrong as it could be considered as belittling or an insult as you suggest they're wrong and therefore diminish view of them in their or others eyes. 2. a)First paragraph of removed directly addressed event in dragon age orgins that OP mentioned as their "did that really just happen?" moment upon which I commented regarding to event and player experience being surprised they haven't experienced it before and commenting upon it further after author clarified. Do you consider first paragraph off topic and if you did on basis of what principle you did determine that? b)Second paragraph was indeed off topic, as it was referring to comment OP left regarding rudeness of my comment and as such didn't really have anything or much with topic itself and what OP initially have written. However, it was about half (larger half) of my post that unlikely contained more than 150 words if not even 100 and was in response to accusation of rudeness and guidelines suggest to explain in such situation (granted it does say in private but it I was making what I would consider on-topic response so why not involve explanation in same post in thread that you comment was refereed as rude?). Was this off-topic and if only this part nor above, is merely containing some off topic message in the comment is enough to remove it or is there a principle that would establish threshold that you can go off topic in specific message and after crossing it message gets removed? It may seem pedantic to you perhaps but if I'm ignorant of process of establishing those specific rules are considered to be broken then I can't adjust to my behavior because I don't know how my behavior violates established or expected standards. MaxCaulfield (talk) 07:52, October 9, 2019 (UTC) ________________________ In regard to your response. I'm still none of the wiser with what is the standard and it's a must because If I do violate it I will have comment removed, essentially wasting time on writing comment that will be removed instead taking preventative action to ensure it wont, even in cases you will simply warn me beforehand, I'll be wasting your time to write a warning, while I could prevent the issue in the first place if I know what to avoid.Applying common sense to etiquette works only if you happen to be familiar with specifically applied etiquette (what is especially an issue if there isn't decided and disclaimed cultural one) or specific behavioral standard is multicultural/universal. If method of determining rudeness comes to subjective categorization, then we run into a problem where different mods or perhaps even same mod will have different way to categorize rude behavior and perhaps will remove comments arbitrarily. So I think either more expanded and well-defined rules would be necessary if rules were to enforced strictly and in case one wants maintain current rather vague guidelines, I think behavioral expectations should be lower (at least on forum), as to be honest, behavioral expectations seem to be exceptionally high even for in real life interaction, let alone common standard of internet behavior as even strongly moderated forums typically tend to draw a line in name calling not simply bringing up a negative trait in context of the topic (although only memory comment refereed to a negative trait, exploration comment refereed more to gameplay style rather than generally recognized negative trait, simply a preference).Then if a single user is granted power to shut down the conversation then we're in a bit of the mess as anyone can accuse anyone of being rude for any type of behavior and if user had to back off then effectively user could prevent discussion that doesn't go way user wanted (or for whatever reason they find fit to do so). Even if we did involve admins, if there is no impartially enforced established criteria we run into issues mentioned above. I'm not sure if you're right person to complain about guidelines or enforcement of those but perhaps you could pass it to a person that is responsible for them or at least direct me to such person. As for off-topic paragraph, I assume you're speaking about second paragraph. To which I agree it was off-topic because it concerned response to complaint by OP concerning my post. However, was it really necessary to remove it remove it if first paragraph was fine or at least simply violated fairly subjective sensibility of the single user, instead simply warning to keep things on topic? If that was an issue then it brings to a question why comment that initiated topic concerning rudeness of my post wasn't removed along my post, after all both concerned same topic that was deemed off-topic and why not warn both of us to keep things on topic? I think it would be only fair as assuming I correctly identified standard we both violated it. MaxCaulfield (talk) 07:52, October 9, 2019 (UTC) ___________________ As you consider this specific issue closed, then I will simply speak about what I consider to be an issues with the system and offer some further suggestions how to fix it, why it's a problem and it could be beneficiary be fixed presented issues. To address what you said about issue not being a big deal and trivial matter, this may be true for an individual instance but said individual instance showcases flaw in the system that will likely produce many more such instances in the future (perhaps affected people won't be as persistent about it as me but nonetheless there could be room for an improvement), while it could be avoided and create more effective forum to communicate within. For an example issue of off-topic in this specific case could be perhaps prevented in the first place, if rule on forum was added "Don't make and engage in comments regarding other user behavior, if you think user isn't adhering to guidelines/ breaking terms of service, file a report" or simply "Don't post content that isn't addressing the topic or is irrelevant in respect to the topic (e.g. talking about data of release of next game in topic about plot of previous game or referring to a user behavior)".Second rule contains much wider types of behavior within it than former, so if applied strictly it could scare away some users, so I wouldn't punish harshly for breaking it and provide warnings beforehand. I think my criticism regarding civility could also be useful to update guidelines and make lower behavioral standard and makie it more clear making it more user friendly "don't resort to name calling in regard to other users or real world figures, words that would be considered vulgar by an average English speaker, name-calling or advocating physical and mental harm that would violate human/ Us constitution rights against groups based on protected characteristic (such as sex, sexuality, race etc)" In addition you could add behaviors such as doxxing/revealing/posting users or someone's private information that wasn't willingly revealed by user/person on this site or in the link to other site or other account provided on this site. In addition to that I think having clear rules and guidelines for moderators how to approach specific violation (assuming there aren't any in the present time) would help to reduce arbitrariness and bias in implementation of rules (No one likes to be punished for violation and see other people not being punished for same violation or other type of one, due to some arbitrary reason and at very least leaves user with negative experience on the site), in addition to that informing others what specific punishment is for violation of the rule would be helpful as well. I realize, that forum most likely isn't primary function of the site and primary function being provision of information concerning specific franchise and forum is a secondary function of this site. However, if quality of the forum was improved by making certain additions and correction then perhaps it would attract more users including permanent ones. So I think relatively easy to implement improvements that would allow user understand to greater extent what is expected of them (this may be issue especially for autistic people that struggle with understanding intuitively social norms and it's easier to understand for them well-defined direct rules) and provide some protection against unfair treatment from moderators on the site, would at least prevent certain behaviors that result from misunderstanding of them and perhaps could even attract more long-term users.Same for decreasing behavioral expected standard, to one that would still allow to maintain certain level of civility, while offering more freedom to users to express themselves. I think site could benefited by improved of the forum, don't you think? So maybe what you consider over-thinking on my part are suggestions with some thoughts put into how improve system and could improve forum and by an extension this site? I don't think you should focus on me or this incident but look at bigger picture and introducing those suggestions to admins in that context. MaxCaulfield (talk) 19:02, October 9, 2019 (UTC)